Posts by Marvin Shilmer

323

Question and answers for fisherperson regardingy time at bethel

by _Morpheus in

so fisherperson sent me a pm asking a bunch of questions re my time at beth hell.

rather than respond in a pm i will post the q/a here as i have nothing to hide.

q:what years did you serve in brooklyn bethel?

Marvin Shilmer

In my opinion, neither can you be trusted to arbitrate with any objectivity whatsoever anything relating to privacy in connection with the WTS.

I've read enough of your postings here to have this opinion: I don't care if you trust or do not trust me to arbitrate anything. And, if it matters at all, it is comical that you ascribe arbitration to what I've shared.

There are 2 issues, broadcasting my PM and making fun of my screen name.

I believe the PM at issue is in _Morpheus inbox. Not yours. If you did or did not want him to do something with what you gave to him then you should have told him so. Did you? If not, then he only did what he did with what was his to do with. If you think he betrayed you then my recommendation is that you don't trust him anymore.

Making fun of your screen name? Just a tab bit childish for you to give this the time of day. My pen name gets trashed all the time. What should I do? Cry about it as though that deserves my time?

I have defeated Morpheus in debates ...

When we declare victory for ourself in debates we find ourself in a pitiful place.

Morpheus has done this jeeringly and he himself has stated that his reasons are retaliatory.

And you've done less? Look in the mirror if you want to find a jeering retaliating individual.

323

Question and answers for fisherperson regardingy time at bethel

by _Morpheus in

so fisherperson sent me a pm asking a bunch of questions re my time at beth hell.

rather than respond in a pm i will post the q/a here as i have nothing to hide.

q:what years did you serve in brooklyn bethel?

Marvin Shilmer

Marvin, i totally understand your point, as i do everyone elses, but i feel zero regret.

And, at this point, I don't see any reason for you to feel regret.

I'll add that there is an argument that if someone entrusts something to us they are also entrusting us to do with it as we see fit unless told otherwise. Folks do this with personal letters all the time. A letter given to me by another is then my letter. Unless the sender states a condition of what can or cannot be done with that letter then ethically and morally I don't have an issue with acting responsibly with that letter based on my own ethical and moral standards, which is what the sender extended trusted over in the first place.

In this case it appears to me you acted responsible with what was given to you. Then the sender does, in my opinion, overreact as though you've broken a trust. Unless Fisherman asked that you not share his PM to you then I don't see an issue worth complaining about in this instance.

323

Question and answers for fisherperson regardingy time at bethel

by _Morpheus in

so fisherperson sent me a pm asking a bunch of questions re my time at beth hell.

rather than respond in a pm i will post the q/a here as i have nothing to hide.

q:what years did you serve in brooklyn bethel?

Marvin Shilmer

I've been sent PMs on occasion where questions are posed to me and I choose to answer them publicly. I've not included the sender's identity on these occasions because sometime folks have ideas of what they consider private that differ from my own. For some individuals (and Fisherman appears to be among these) it is considered private that they even asked a question or questions regardless of how mundane. I don't know why this is the case, but here we have an instance of an individual who's sole objection is that it is made known that they are the one who asked the rather innocuous questions that _Morpheus opted to answer publicly.

14

Jw's featured in the mags who later left?

by purrpurr in

i was just wondering if any of those jw's who got their story told or featured as "a fine example" in the publications, if they ever left the org later?

i mean i know regular jw's would probably never hear about it but i thought maybe you guys might?

Marvin Shilmer

Here's one:

What happened to — Rami Oved

63

Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh

by WildeLover in

http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/is-watchtower-imploding-10-reasons-why-the-end-could-be-nigh.

i dont know how to hyperlink the link above,.

it's a link to an article by cedars on the possibility of the wt imploding?.

Marvin Shilmer

The Watchtower organization has lots of old money in the form of massive assets, including huge cash reserves.

Lately it has concocted novel ways of multiplying its overall assets, including enormous amounts of new cash and new cash flow. In the real world we all live in, lots of capital makes a corporation stronger. Watchtower is becoming stronger financially.

Watchtower's leadership does not give one hoot about doctrine. It's new mode of strengthening itself is to alter how it rakes in financial assets. That's the new light! That's Watchtower's new religious movement.

49

What are the costs of literature cart witnessing?

by oppostate in

in the article on the guardian ( http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/14/jehovahs-witnesses-evangelism-church-god-armageddon ) mentioned in another thread, there's this quote of mark omalley, who is assigned to the public information desk at the jehovahs witness uk centre in north london.

we now have more than 165,000 [literature] carts on the streets in over 50 countries.

it gives us visibility and availability.

Marvin Shilmer

The cost of these things must be far, far less than the enormous fuel cost to publishers for driving around in oil-burners. In my case, I could have paid for one of these set-ups and easily saved my household 2,000 dollars (US) annually.

So what's the difference? I know who got the thousands of fuel dollars annually. The guy who owns the local pumping station! Who gets the revenue for the do-nothing cart-setups? I have no idea. But the "time" is a lot easier. You just stand there and do nothing!

33

Transcription of interview with Rabbi Michael Berenbaum regarding German JW's in the concentration camps

by Saintbertholdt in

a while ago i transcribed a video interview with rabbi michael berenbaum from the university of judaism.

the interview concerns jehovah's witnesses during the second world war in the german concentration camp system.

berenbaum is a historian and specifically researches jehovah's witnesses during the shoah and also the idea of martyrdom.

Marvin Shilmer

Renunciation Document Under Nazi Germany

12

A WT "prophecy" that finally came true?

by eyeuse2badub in

at long last, after 140 years of failed prophecies, it appears that the borg finally got one right!

recall the odd little article published back in the november 15th, 2013 wt about the 7 shepherds 8 dukes (anti-type) and the evil assyrian (anti-type) and some silly nonsense about the assyrians attack on the vulnerable wtbts.

page 20 paragraph 17 of that strange article contained this foreboding prophecy from the faithful and discreet slave, (anti-type);.

Marvin Shilmer

Watchtower's 1958 illustrated prediction that actually came true: The Urge — Watchtower’s ironic prediction

128

Looking Back In Retrospect To 1975...

by titch in

greetings, folks: so, it's been 40 years since 1975. and, if you were actively involved with the witnesses back then, the mindset of many was, that by early autumn of 1975, it would mark the anniversary of 6000 years of human existence.

and, the hope was then, that it would mark the start of the 1000-year of christ, from the heavenly realm.

but, looking back now, 40 years ago, in june of 1975, only 3 more months remained until early autumn.

Marvin Shilmer

I lived the 1975 fiasco. One incident I recall was an ongoing debate between three congregation servants (now called elders) about how long the great tribulation would last leading up to Armageddon. One felt like the GT would last about 5 years hence he expected things to really start getting nasty for JWs in 1970. The second felt like the GT would not have to last longer than 1 year. The third felt like both men were full of crap because no one could know the day and hour hence the whole discussion was speculative, including the part about 1975 potentially seeing Armageddon. The debate between these three men went on for several years. At nearly every social event where I'd encounter the three men I'd hear the discussion continue. I'd also hear it at after meetings at the KH. These guys could not let it go. All three remained as JWs. Two are deceased now and the third (the more reasonable 'no one can know the day and hour' guy) remains as active elder to this day. Last time he and I spoke I raised this incident and the long debate he had had with the other two and he said he didn't recall the three of them ever discussing the matter.

26

Sir David Eady to give judgement on the Watctower Appeal in the Otuo v Morley and Watch Tower case at the High Court tommorrow

by Adwoa Kromo in

sir david eady sitting as high court judge will hand down judgement tomorrow at 11:00am in the appeal of the decision from master leslie for refusing to strike out the claim as an abuse of process.

in his judgement in november 2014 he stated in his judgement delivered ex-tempore " i am bound to say that this case causes me a good deal of trouble".

from notes that i have from the hearing last week, i will be utterly surprised if the retired judge sir david eady takes a different view.

Marvin Shilmer

From the judgement:

"I bear in mind Mr Daniel's warning that I may be allowing myself to be diverted by a "smokescreen", but it simply illustrates why the facts need to be properly investigated after full pleadings have become available, disclosure of documents has taken place and witness statements have been exchanged. Only then will the smoke have cleared."

Mr. Daniels works for Watchtower. It's ironic that on one hand Watchtower complains judicially of a smokescreen yet simultaneously depends so heavily on smokescreen to keep the public from knowing what really happens inside its self-organized and managed shunning program.

Watchtower has done this before. In 1981 take a look at how Watchtower complained about lack of public view and review:

Criminal trials were doubtless much speedier in Israel than they are at present in countries such as the United States, where clogged courts and elaborate procedure give rise to many delays. Since the local court was situated at the city gates, there was no question about the trial being public! (Deut. 16:18-20) No doubt the public trials helped influence the judges toward carefulness and justice, qualities that sometimes vanish in secret star-chamber hearings. What about witnesses? Witnesses in Bible times were required to testify publicly. For this reason they were warned not to be influenced in their testimony by the pressure of public opinion “so as to turn aside with the crowd in order to pervert justice.” Perjury was not punished with a jail term, but with whatever punishment the false witness had sought to bring upon the defendant—even death!--(Awake, published by Watchtower, January 22, 1981, p. 17)

To this very day Watchtower disallows third-party viewing of its "judicial" activities even when requested by the accused. The very safeguards Watchtower admits as important the result of public review it rejects by disallowing third-party viewing (when it's requested).

Watchtower's tactics in the public arena are beyond contempt. The organization's leadership is overloaded with rot. It is beyond repair or reform.